STUDIO GIGS

[dragonorchid]

no, I'm just putting out a hypothetical scenario... one which I don't think it very good... just to piss you all off. because I feel like it.

[Willow]

well it worked

[Willow]

becuase I know that what the critera was in the beginning.

[dragonorchid]

sorry. Its a dumb idea. remember, you own me.

[dragonorchid]

i must really deserve a whipping by now.

[Willow]

Yeah your close alright

[that drummer]

$50??? 4 bands=$200, which means the rock factory will still be risking money the same as the bands? we happily pay $50 for botb, and we dont get that back.

Maybe ill just do me a survey to keep me occupied this holiday and see what makes people come to gigs. Market research  

I think im taking my business course to seriously, but what ya gonna do  

[simon_ishtar]

Who pays to go into WBoB? we never do?
I'm pushing for a bar tab this year   (I've offered to judge this year).
I also have the following terms and conditions the next time Lou asks us to play an intergalactic gig though.
1. We have Black Sabbath's 'Neon Knights' playing while we set up on infinite repeat.
2. we expect green tea to be available from the bar.
3. Anyone named 'Kirt' will be asked to leave. We don't know any Kirts but figure why not ask for it?

[that drummer]

we've paid, why not? whats a lil competition? I bet $100 on the all blacks, i mean, that band  

[simon_ishtar]

If you wait long enough they'll invite you to play then you get in for free.  

[that drummer]

Yea but you don't tend to get invited to anything when your 6months old, thus, doing lots of gigs where we can

[simon_ishtar]

thats a fair point. Don't worry once you're on the list you're there for life.  

[Archie McRiff]

f**k, what is up with this forum? Does it automatically log you out after a period even though I've saved the username and password on Firefox, and selected the "stay logged in forever" option? This has annoyed the hell out of me. I spent twenty minutes reading the thread, and at least five in solid typing.

I had a long post written, which is now lost to the ages.

I will summarize it:

Less gigs at Studio
More gigs at Shadows. Many, many more gigs at Shadows.

The reasoning for this has been deleted due to the forum logging me out (note: not dissing Michelle, just whoever designed the HTML or whatever).

[dragonorchid]

hi Archie, try using the login box in the bottom right hand corner... it seems to work better most of the time... unless anyone else is having problems staying logged into this forum at the moment?

[goatboy]

Hi Michelle, I do understand what you're saying about untested bands. But how exactly does a band wanting to play a Rock Factory gig become a tested band in your definition? That's more where I think people were coming from when they mentioned this to me. It's that similar catch22 situation people face when they go looking for a job in a particular field; you can't get the job without experience but you can't get experience without getting a job.

Dave, what do you mean posters don't do sh*it?! How exactly does the general public find out about your gig then? Word of mouth is only going to get mates along, advertising on music websites is only going to advertise gigs to other musicians who couldn't give a flying fu*ck about anyone elses gigs, gig guides on radio are okay but they don't stick in your head. Having a few 100 posters up and around the place in peoples faces all the time does work. It's not gauranteed that people will come because of the posters but I fail to see how a few 1000 people driving and walking past your posters everyday for a week could have no effect whatsoever.

Our gig in Wellington was evident that it does work because I took the time to ask a few of the punters how they heard about our gig. Pretty much even quantities of word of mouth, posters and the radio ad. Perhaps posters just don't work for you?

[that drummer]

Uhhh, if your using firefox, you cannot stay logged in forever, you have to log in seperatly everytime, and after some time of no activity i.e. reading a thread, it will log you out on your next page click.

[simon_ishtar]

I think both of you are right.... and wrong. Posters in the bar absolutely essential, if possible and the bar has a notice board, have something up as much as a month beforehand. Posters up amongst the big kids stuff at traffic intersections? only if it is the same size as the massive posters for the big touring acts. Keep in mind if one of theirs gets pasted over the morons who put them up tend to tear yours down and ring the venue to bitch about it. Apparently ad companies pay a lot of $$s to put them up. (We covered a telecom one once and it ended up in a shitfight. Poster guys rung the bar and threatened them with legal action, bar called me, I called back poster guy and threatened to hospitalize him....)
 I believe anything round university there should be a poster run of that area about a week beforehand. Anything where you want students there same thing. K rd best you can do is about two days before and mostly round the bus stops. high turnover of crap and a lot of shop owners who rip that stuff down.
 Work place bulletin boards must be done.
 End of the day though you are not advertising the gig that night to most people, you are putting up half a dozen then a number of the people seeing it are  going to say "Maybe I should google that name I see it on a lot of posters" Thats my theory on posters and Auckland.
 
Out of town gigs posters are essential and I reckon it pays to come up with something really kick arse. Not just that get down there a month beforehand and actuallu go into the corner shops etc ask if they are cool having the posters in  their shop windows. Definitely out of Auckland people will make more of an effort if the poster gets their attention.

[Thomas]

just to add two little things:

I've started leaving flyers strategically placed on buses... I know that i would read them, so you'd assume that others would. I hope .

and a small question - what is the optimum number of bands to play during the night? i'd like to apologise for missing upraw on friday, but i was a bit rooted - and that was only after 3 bands played... so i'd be interested for comment (considering there were meant to be 5 bands playing on friday).

[goatboy]

We use Phantom Bill Stickers and have never had any problems, probably because Phantom are those morons who make life difficult for everyone else

[Dime4Life]

Uhhh, if your using firefox, you cannot stay logged in forever, you have to log in seperatly everytime, and after some time of no activity i.e. reading a thread, it will log you out on your next page click.

my firefox at home is logged in everytime I go on... never had an issue for not being logged in once i used the box on the bottom right hand corner... probably also has something to do with your cookies
C is for cookie and cookie is for me
nummm nummm nummmmmmm

[Cyprien]

Posters need to grab attention, like Simon already mentioned. And nothing grabs attention more than SEX.

See? You're reading this post already. Print half naked girls on your flyers and you'll get an audience.

[goatboy]

Only half naked? What about the full spread eagle?

[Willow]

It worked for that hysteria gig we did with AF and Rose pettals, we used a realy cool flyer in colour with a bdsm pic on it so it would grab attention and also prompt people to keep it for their wall.If you look like youve spent some time and money  and thought on your flyer it will come accross better than a plain black and white flyer with a half assed look to it, no matter how you look at it you cant help but equate the flyer with the bands on it, ie if it looks like sh*t then the band will be too.

[Cyprien]

Only half naked? What about the full spread eagle?

Got in trouble with that last time. Bleh - all that PC crapola. Although half naked tends to let the mind wander a lot more than the full monty.

[that drummer]

bikinis with band names on them???

[goatboy]

Nah, spell out the band names on the side of a hill using naked body's and take a photo of it. You can even use live people if you like.

[Archie McRiff]

End of the day though you are not advertising the gig that night to most people, you are putting up half a dozen then a number of the people seeing it are  going to say "Maybe I should google that name I see it on a lot of posters" Thats my theory on posters and Auckland.

Hey man, that's my theory too. It's how I respond to posters, usually, because I'll check posters when I walk past them, and once I see a band's name a few times on posters for different gigs, I'll think "It's probably about time to get along and see those chaps".

Whoever had the idea about leaving flyers on busses... I reckon that's a damn good idea, and I'm going to use it if that's OK.

With the forum signin thing, I'm going to write it off as something Firefox related, and sorry I wasn't being constructive, it had been a very long day, with the power cuts and all. Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to copy and paste the text into a text file in case for long posts.

The reason I was saying less Studio was, in short, what everyone else was saying:
1) Much higher cost
2) Huge size, and inability to ever fill it completely, even if you do manage to break even money-wise

And more Shadows because:
1) My collossal personal bias, as it is my second home
2) Drinks I can actually afford
3) Much lower cost
4) We're all students, or know lots of students, and it's easy to get a good turnout. I'd rather go to a gig at Shadows than an empty room at Studio any day.
5) Easy to promote, as you know where your target market is already. Posters on K Rd, flyers at uni (handing out flyers is good fun as long as people don't associate you with those persistent Christian types), and perhaps even AUT.

May have had more points, but that's all I can remember for now

[Neill]

+ 1 for Shadows.
Studios great fun to play at but empty rooms arent too great. Shadows would be even better if a few week nights could be secured as it tends to be a lot busier then than on weekends.

In essence I think in saying you know who your market is pretty much hits the nail on the head and Shadows has that advantage. Posters in the right place ie uni seem to work. Bus seats should also work. Another thing I meant to do with this gig but the semester ended before I got a chance was doing a leaflet drop in the lecture theaters ie leave a few hundred leaflets on theater desks. Cheap to do, huge hugh exposure rates. Also, presuming Shadows is the go, get Craccum to run an article and regularly plug the gigs in the music page, again massive exposure, I think the print run is around 20000 copies a week. And of course shadows is cheap, really cheap.

As far as the whole rock factory business model etc goes I have a few observations which or may not help:
As far as who's doing what its pretty obvious to me that as long The Rock Factory are organising these gigs they are the promoter, they control what happens and how it happens. Which also means that its inevitable that promotion activities are going to be (semi consciously perhaps) expected by the bands playing. Not to say this is right but it happens nonetheless.

So effectively, as I think Michelle is trying to do with the $100 bond, there needs to be a way to make the bands more responsible for their gigs. Maybe dare I say the rock factory should take a promotion cut to cover those costs if it seems the burden should lie on them? But maybe more logically, there should be a promotion payment, not a bond. Ie hire a poster gang and make the bands playing foot the bill up front. That way they're effectively forced to contribute to promotion even if they don't actively do anything. This will also work in the Shadows environment because they actual gig costs will be low. This cost means the band will take more ownership of the gigs and work to get a crowd to cover their cost in playing, there's no better motivator than money, especially when its a 'forced' debt.
So in other words, you play, you pay to promote it. We use these guys and this is what it costs and this is what you owe them, through us. Make it transparent so the rock factory still doesn't take a cut from it.

Another major thing which has crossed my mind, and this completely cuts into the rock factory specifically, is that if they continue to run the gigs it should be under a different umbrella. In other words a different name and as a result a different image. Reserve 'The Rock Factory' for recording and live sound services, those services being reserved to rate based hire work. Operate all 'promoted' gigs under a pseudonym and keep the rock factory as far removed as possible. The Indie Club does pretty much the same thing. The other positive note about this is that if there is any blacklash arising from 'exclusion and band ownership' strategies for gigs the rock factory isn't directly affected as a unit.

I think thats all...for now.

[dragonorchid]

I understand what you are all saying. And I agree. For the bands, The Studio looks pretty good with about 200 people in it like the May 13th Gig, but it still looks pretty empty with 100 people there. under the current circumstances, 100 people is about break even point if money has been spent on posters and advertising... its a huge burden.

Shadows on the other hand has a $150 cost for a Rock Factory sound engineer and we always bring extra stage monitors, stands,  micorphones, cables and a better sound desk to use with the in house PA, plus whatever the door person they provide takes for her services (they provide a door person, which means I don't get stuck on the door... and even though we have no choice about this, Its actually a relief).
Auckland uni students get in for free, AUT students/bcard holders $5, everyone else $10.

Still brings me to the point that organising gigs takes too much of my time. I'd rather hand it over to the bands, I can still use my contact list and gig guide list on a gig to gig basis, if we are involved somehow as sound techs, but I'd much rather bands organise their own gigs and lineups.

What we really are doing is providing discounted sound tech services...

If we didn't bring our PA gear to most gigs, the bands would have to pay someone else to provide the gear at likely higher rates, or similar rates, but for a lilkely less grunty system.

Last Sat's Shadows gig was the Cliff Hedley Band's Album Release Party, with us as sound techs.

I have cancelled the Fri 7th July Studio Gig, because I don't think there is enough time to do an adequite job on promotion  and getting the word out there.

Sat the 5th of August Studio gig is going to be Antihero's EP release, and they have agreed to cover costs if they are not covered by the door, and are organising some of the lineup, using some Rock Factory contacts for bands they think would fit (who I am ringing for them). Because we are providing them with an affordable way to use the Studio, our logo will be on their poster somewhere, and I will be e-mailing all the gig guides about it, and doing internet promo for it. They will take care of poster design and posters. This seems like much more a mutually beneficial way to run an event. We will be working as a team, and splitting tasks to make it a sucessful event.

[Archie McRiff]

+ 1 for Shadows.
Studios great fun to play at but empty rooms arent too great. Shadows would be even better if a few week nights could be secured as it tends to be a lot busier then than on weekends.

... I think the [Craccum] print run is around 20000 copies a week. And of course shadows is cheap, really cheap.

Week nights can be tricky at Shadows as they usually have things on; Tuesday is pub quiz, and Wednesday is karaoke - and I will fight anyone to the death who tries to take those away from me on a permanent basis. Thursday and Saturdays can often be available. Friday nights they won't be keen to have bands unless the bar will be close to packed, because they can probably fill the bar with just a sh*t DJ playing top 40 commercial hip-pop, and people will buy more drinks if they're trying to dance and wear hats at stupid angles and impress girls (and they tend to buy the more expensive bottled beers rather than jugs, too) than at a rock concert where people are watching bands and drinking slowly or not at all. For this to change you'd have to show that RF punters will drink a goodly amount of alcohol, which may require a mindset shift.

Craccum prints 10000 copies a week. No gig guide in it per se, although Ryan's sort of been doing an entertainment guide, but I'm sure that if you emailed Joe the music editor (thenewentertainment   AT   gmail.com) or even Ryan the editor (craccum.editor     AT    auckland.ac.nz) he'd be happy to include it; or you could pay for advertising (probably discounted for AUSA members), and as I've just remembered that this is about gigs at Shadows, yes Shadows does have a page which says what's on there each night.

[Tags:]

The Rock Factory Community  THE ROCK FACTORY SECTION  Rock Factory Interactive - Talk with the Rock Factory Team  Topic: STUDIO GIGS